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Thank you very much for finally writing an unbiased, thoughtful perceptive book report on Booker's Seven Plots. I just checked out many web reviews by so-called magazine reviewers, all of whom just did not read carefully or thoughtfully Booker's work. Their reviews showed their narrowed blinkered media-bedazzled minds, nothing more. I really appreciate your ability to read, absorb and report without opinionated judgements. Again, thanks. I found the book a useful and fascinating way to stretch my thinking about literature and life.

Thanks for stopping by, Vanessa! I was quite suprised at how vitriolic many of the reviews of this book were. As I allude to above, there has been a shift in the centre of gravity of modern thinking, and anyone whose perspective is framed differently risks excessive and sometimes unwarranted criticism. Take care!

I just finished reading this book, and I thought it was one of the most amazing books I've ever read. The Seven Basic Plots not only gave me a better understanding of stories in general, it gave me a better understanding of my life and the characters and issues which have affected me. It seems to me that many of the critical reviews are just sour grapes from lesser thinkers who have not had the persistence and intellectual insight to write such a book.

The book is one of the gems of our time.

Thanks for the comment, Bill! I certainly think that the critics in general did not give this book a fair treatment.

If you enjoyed this, I strongly recommend you check out Joseph Campbell's work as well (if you haven't already). 'The Power of Myth' is a good place to start. Best wishes!

Romance? Could that be the 8th plot point? I was going to say 'mystery' aswell but it seems that Booker added 2 new plot points including that one (as just read in the summary above... thanks for it btw)

so wouldnt it be the 10 plot points rather than seven?

Booker is keen to point out that "seven basic plots" of his title is simply a device he uses to frame the book, but that it is entirely arbitrary. One could lay down a different grid and get a different result. Of course, his core idea (stories are variations on family drama themes) is independent of this framing mechanism.

Regarding Romance, most romance stories have one of the plots, above. Comedy is perhaps the most common. Romance, like Sci Fi, can be seen as a genre rather than a plot, per se; the framework within which the plot is developed.

As ever, it's a question of perspective.

Thanks for the comment!

Jung has been discredited? By whom? Psychology has evolved but has he been debunked?

Havelock: this was a flippant comment by me. It would be fairer to say that Jung has fallen out of favour. That said, if you dug around I suspect you could find someone who would be willing to claim that Jung has been "debunked". Consider the piece on Jung in the Skeptics Dictionary as an example.

Thanks for commenting!

I don't expect you to have read any of The Gap Cycle by Stephen Donaldson; IMHO they weren't nearly as good as The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. However, the first novel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_Story) ends with an author's note where Donaldson hypothesizes that drama consists of three characters (victim, persecutor, rescuer) who over the course of a story exchange roles (and if they don't, then it's melodrama). That gives you five different dramatic devices to layer onto these basic plots.

My own observation is that those roles can be assigned to different genders in eight different ways. "War" stories would feature all male characters, while other permutations would allow for various forms of romance. I'm not sure what to call the all-female versions, but I'm sure that Jane Austen's books would be fine examples.

Samwyse: Although I know the Stephen Donaldson books, I haven't actually read any for various reasons not worth going into here.

The idea that drama comes from characters exchanging roles is not a new one, and although this certainly is a source of drama I feel it's an oversimplification to suggest that all drama can be reduced to the exchange of victim, persecutor and rescuer roles. In fact, I'm having trouble fitting that to all manner of stories... Hamlet, for instance, doesn't come close to this, but is held to be a paragon of drama (and certainly not melodrama). The exchange of roles does generate drama, but it is far from the only route to this goal.

Regarding the Austen novels, it would be a mistake to assume these are based on an all female cast - the drama in Austen always involves characters of both genders (they could not function as romances otherwise, although reducing Austen to romance is also a simplification).

In fact, there are very few stories which support an all female cast - with the possible exception of the relationship melodrama (Steel Magnolias, say). I think this perhaps is the inverse of the war movie - although even the war movie can feature female roles (c.f. Guns of Navarone or Full Metal Jacket).

It is the nature of stories that they support so many different attempts at analysing their structural composition. While all such attempts can be fascinating, I suppose I draw the line at believing that any such model has universal application.

Thanks for your interesting comment!

Just stumbled across this and found it interesting and thought-provoking.

By the way, Jung developed ideas which eventually gave birth to Alcoholics Anonymous and all of the other numerous 12-step programs. His contributions to modern psychology have had a big part in saving the lives of millions. Among other concepts, he was the first to recognize the need for complete psychic and spiritual change in the alcoholic/addict if recovery was to be at all possible.

So whatever else Jung might have accomplished that has now been debunked or criticized, this single endowment is enough to merit his inclusion in the list of the greatest altruistic contributors to society in the modern age.

Michael: thanks for commenting! My line in this piece about Jung is a dig at the way some scientists treat the body of work as if it was simply a matter of sorting into "true" and "false". I find this a grossly simplistic approach. Jung's contributions to scientific fields are numerous, and go far beyond his psychological models (which are still in use today in the form of models like Temperament Theory). And, as you say, he made social contributions as well.

Best wishes!

Very interesting review and comments. Where does a story like The Stone Diaries fit in? This is the recounting of a life by an elderly woman as she lays dying. Author is Carol Shields.

Bronwen: I haven't read The Stone Diaries, so it's hard to be sure... The form of the deathbed autobiography (of which my favourite is probably The Brothel in Rossenstrasse, one of Mike Moorcock's literary novels) isn't a plot in the sense that Booker means, but a narrative device to frame the story. The actual events of the book would confirm its place in Booker's system, but I imagine it's either Tragedy or Rebirth - just a guess on my part, though. :)

Hi Chris. Thank you so much for your reply. Yes, of course, I see now that the deathbed autobiog is a frame and the story can take any number of plot shapes. In the case of The Stone Diaries, the plot goes from chapter to chapter, titled Birth (the woman gives a whole story of her parents and her own birth, though she wasn't there); Childhood, Marriage, Love, Motherhood, Work, Sorrow, Ease, Illness and Decline, Death. It stretches from 1905 to 1985-ish, and is, I suppose a little episodish (and quirky). Though you haven't read it, does this suggest a type of plot to you? I'm very interested in your view because you are very knowledgeable and I'm on a steep learning curve, looking for a (near-enough-ish) example of a plot for something I am writing, which is, yes, you guessed it, a woman recounting her life. Thanks so much.

Bronwen: from what I can tell, The Stone Diaries is a tale of a woman's failure to find purpose and contentment... as such, I suspect it would fit under Tragedy in Booker's system.

However, if you are looking to create a plot for your own work, I wouldn't necessarily start by reverse engineering Booker's system. Booker is attempting to examine the commonalities in narrative, not proposing *how* to construct plots.

I guess you are starting out experimenting with fiction? If so, joining a writing circle near where you live can be a good way to learn the craft. As with any field, we learn from our mistakes, but in order to do so it is often helpful to have other people to give us perspective.

You should also probably begin with short stories, rather than novels. Short form writing will allow you to practice the basics before tackling anything too long.

Of course, I may have misread the situation. :)

Hope this is helpful!

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