My Photo

Or Our First Book...

Blog powered by TypePad

« Beyond Puzzles | Main | Happy Birthday, Patrick! »

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d83452030269e200e5546e7b618833

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference A Secular Age (1): Charles Taylor:

Comments

Hmmm, as an asian person I found myself being terribly offended at his anglocentrism.

Perhaps it's reflexive racism, or maybe your choice of quotes. Or not.

Certainly the notion that "Western Society" has moved from 1500 to 2000 in a straight narrow line from more religious to less religious seems silly to me.

To me, it's makes more sense to consider that all viewpoints have been broadened due to multiculturalism - by being exposed to the notion of other Faiths, it's easier to start questioning your own.

I'm very intrigued by this series. I studied a little bit of Anscombe's work in university, but alas, am not yet familiar with Taylor. Looking forward to subsequent posts with much anticipation.

Hey Chris--I've still got two of Taylor's mammoth tomes paperweighting around the house, but I'm sure you won't mind if I treat this series as a somewhat abridged version :) Or hopefully a prompt to resume reading him. Very happy to see this post.

zeech: If Taylor's work and focus is on Western society and religion, I fail to see sense of charging him with anglocentrism.
Moreover, nothing about his work suggests the reductive view of a "straight narrow line" from religion to irreligion. In his (delightfully brief) Ethics of Authenticity, Taylor affirms that modern, individual belief can be far more meaningful than it was in homogenously theistic ages past.
Multiculturalism and pluralism of all stripes generally enrich, and that's why he's talking about "stories of subtraction"--that rich faith traditions of every kind have been squeezed out of meaningful social and cultural spheres.

"why was it virtually impossible not to believe in God in, say, 1500 in our Western society, while in 2000 many of us find this not only easy, but even inescapable?"

'cause if you didn't, you'd be in the torture chamber until you did! Have you seen some of the stuff they've got in those places? I'd kiss a statue's feet as many times as it took if I was being threatened with that : (

Jack: Well, I havent read Taylor so I'm talking from a perspective of ignorance here, I stated that already.

But I do feel that when you decide to exclusively focus on the west and religion, and then make statements like "the change I want to define and trace is one which takes us from a society in which it was virtually impossible not to believe in God, to one in which faith, even for the staunchest believer, is one human possibility among others" is a bit myopic in that he's describing in terms of a linear shift rather than a mere demographic broadening.

Hmm, I just invented some new terms that dont mean anything :P


Also, I really question that "in 1500 it was impossible not to believe in God". Common sense suggests that most people of the culture he's referring to believed in God in the same way most people today believe in science - they've been taught about it, and know about it, and don't question it, but they aren't passionate about it, nor do they derive any particular meaning from it.

This probably shouldnt be lumped together with the "faith" or "belief" we normally mean when talking about religious people.

A similar example are some Ukranian friends I had - they were raised under the orthodox church, they go to church regularly and participate in events, when asked if they believed in God they'd shrug and go, "well, yeah", but ultimately they think the church is mostly BS and go there for socialising and cultural reasons.

They dont particularly think or care deeply about religious matters, and if you tried to engage them in theological discussion you'd find that ultimately their true beliefs more closely resemble agnosticism - they dont know, and dont particularly care about god.

zeech: Taylor focuses on the West in order to narrow the discussion to something manageable in 850 pages, and narrows it to religion because that's the topic he wants to talk about. You can't accuse him of bias simply because he's written about one topic instead of all topics! :)

Jack's take on this is the correct interpretation: it's not that Taylor doesn't care about what happens outside of Western culture, or recognise influences from outside it (more on that further down the line) it's that this is his area of expertise, and to widen the debate to cover the changes in other cultures would make the book impossible for him to write.

And you grossly misunderstand the culture of the early modern era in Europe if you think that belief in God wasn't central to society at the time. More on that next week, although by virtue of the abridgment I have to miss out all the amazing details about life in the 1500-1650 period that Taylor provides. If you truly want to get that experience, you'll have to read the book yourself. :)

I strongly advise you to suspend your conclusions about the narrative that Taylor constructs in this book until you've seen a little more of it, although I am sure you will still have plenty more to object to further down the line. ;)

Deirdra: thanks for the encouragement! Many of the players here forget that I need some of that from time to time. ;)

Sirc: ha, I'll resist countering this on the assumption that you're joking and don't really believe that the Spanish Inquisition fully encapsulates 500 years of Christian history. :) I will, however, note that not believing in God was seldom the central issue for such matters. That's a distinctly modern misconception.

Jack: I appreciate your position here - it's taken me over a year to read "A Secular Age". It's been utterly rewarding, but boy has it been hard work!

Happy to be your source for abridgment, and if this prompts you to pursue the tomes further so much the better. ;)

Best wishes!

*offers words of encouragement too*

This sounds yet more interesting stuff that will be, as often things are here, way way over my head, but I'll enjoy reading and trying to see what I can glean from it. :)

Thanks Rik! This shouldn't be too difficult to follow, I think, but then I frequently misjudge just how complex my posts will be. :)

Best wishes!

Thanks for info on Charles Taylor Just heard him speak on C-span and was very interested if his book read like he talks.
I see him as an original thinker. q

HarOLD: Taylor is one-of-a-kind. His books have a very conversational feel, often having been adapted from lectures he gave, so I imagine he does read much as he talks (I've only read him, alas, so can't really comment). There's a serial here on "A Secular Age" which is a good introduction to that mammoth work if you're interested.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment